The Fall of the Lich King

[Aelflaed]

Since I've started to fic the aftermath of this out, I wanted to get a discussion going. If this is overly presumptuous, feel free to delete or move it around.

Arthas died on some other server somewhere quickly after his room opened. Chaos has killed him on Feathermoon - the statue stands in Dalaran. Both of TRI's 10 man groups are at Sindragosa (and one group is extending lockouts expressly to work toward downing Arthas), and several WFR members and associates (though by far not all) are in those groups.

At what point do we say that Arthas is dead and the War of the Frozen Wastes is over? (regardless of whether our characters were or were not there)

And, secondarily, what the hell do we do about it?

Obviously this has some pretty big ramifications. Also obviously, there are big storylines still going on (SW: Riots/Riders vs. SI:7). Also ALSO obviously, we don't all have to come to the same conclusion, though - like Wrathgate - it'd be nice to have at least a general "it's happened" so that we can talk about it in game. Also ALSO /ALSO/ obviously, we have other guilds with whom we work closely - Boomsticks, Rose, SWU - who may or may not already have plans in place.

In short, we knew this was coming eventually, but ohcraphereitisNOWWHAT?

[Fells]

Music to ponder this question by.

I've been wondering the same myself though. I know Joe's invested in having Norvallen personally involved. Who else wants their kits to have been there?

[Lansiron]

By my reckoning, Norvallen is there when it happens. I'm not going to start RPing like it already occurred until she's made the kill.

Actually, though, I think I know the best point at which we can RP in-game like it happened: The next content patch. Blue posts on the official forums have hinted that there'll be at least one more big content update before 4.0 and the Cataclysm opening events start, though it's said that it won't involve any more tiered raid content. More than likely this update will build directly on the aftermath of the Lich King's fall, and I can think of no more appropriate time to acknowledge it than that.

It's probably at least a couple months away, though.

EDIT: Oh hey! Here it is.

[Aelflaed]

Yeah - that's the problem. We're all over the place in terms of who will or wont have made the kill, and when.

I don't want to have to sit on a lot of really character-important RP for Aely for 3 months, especially since a lot of the emotional stuff is coming up as they're getting closer to Arthas in the Citadel, even if there won't be time for TOO much IC stuff actually during the fight. (Have to push heal buttons, OMG)

But I'd also like to not have a repeat of Wrathgate, where some of us RP'd through the event, ficced it, waited to see what the guild would do, and were greeted several months later with "Here's the Guild WG Story: it's happening now instead and here's what's going down" and had to do a lot of rewriting or sit out. While I don't think a giant Guild-Wide-Fic-Project is really suitable for the ICC battle, it's at least something to consider.

[Lansiron]

My suggestion is that, if your character was there, write something about their personal 'aftermath'. It's what I'm planning on doing.

The actual ICC raid contains enough exposition, plot advancement, and legitimately involved storytelling in general that I don't believe it's necessary to rewrite any part of it from any one character's perspective. I'm not saying that as a put-down for anyone's ideas of what to write, rather, my opinion is that the devs did a good enough job with this raid that it speaks for itself. Credit should go where credit is due, here.

As to when you write/post something: That, I say, just do whenever. A concerted effort towards a single "guild fic" on the subject wouldn't be worth it--it would probably fail anyway. Instead, maybe we can just make a sub-forum called "Icecrown Citadel: the Aftermath", and everyone who wants writes a post-mortem account on how their character deals with having been through ICC's course of events, and posts it there.

That's not to say those who actually did raid together shouldn't work with each other on it if they want to--I know I'm going to want input from Cabby and possibly Shaila and Chelody before I write anything myself.

I'm still not going to RP in-game like it already happened until, at least, that next patch rolls in.

[Tiforis]

This is really something I think we'll have to play by ear. The first thing that came to mind for me was waiting to see if Blizzard goes and nerf raid content as they did in BC, if it's done, and we have no serious reason to be raiding (except for gear and desireable rp drops, mind you) then I think we could as a whole transition into the aftermath of the war RP, without leaving people who aren't raiding ICC out in the cold.

[Bricu]

I think that, as a guild, we could do something. I disagree wholeheartedly with LANs about it failing. It does not need to. Obviously, ficcing some of arthas' demise is necessary, especially if it's part of the rp process. And tif made a great point: if content gets nerfed, there is no reason /not/ to run icc with people who didn't see it.

I do think LANs idea about a sub forum is a good idea, bu I also believe that a sub forum is only the beginning of the "official guild line.".

[Delion]

I like the old thing we used to do with Ragnaros: We can acknowledge the statue in Dalaran etc, and just say that The Lich King's 'essence' or whathaveyou in this world is starting to be beaten back, but he's not gone for good yet. But little by little he's weakening with each kill. Cause enough for celebration, but also still a very serious threat to be dealt with. We can just say that when WFR/TRI/whomever kills him, we can RP it as being the big end for him.

[Lansiron]

Damn. Actually missed Bricu's reply a couple weeks ago to the post I made whenever-ago about whether it was not too late to fill in my couple of parts in the Wrath Gate post. I'll try and see if I can manage those before the end of February--I'd like it if it seemed to the rest of the guild that I had some level of participation with my characters.

Anyway; reasons for my pessimism about a concerted story detailing specifically the final battle against the Lich King:

One; as I've already stated, the story as it plays out in ICC is already damn well-told--or at least, as well-told as it can be within the video game medium. I can understand wanting to put a spin on it from one character's viewpoint, but it comes across to me as a little redundant, and...I guess "pretentious" isn't too good a word; it's not that negative, honest, but I feel like it doesn't need any embellishment. Maybe "unnecessary". About the best way of handling it that I could think of is the thought process of a character during the cinematic aftermath and possibly some interaction with any of the NPCs in that development (those who know what happens, know who all I'm talking about; no spoilers, but given the signficance of them in relation to who many of our characters are, it's pretty huge). The temptation from creative types here is likely going to lead to, quite possibly, giving an entire blow-by-blow of the faceoff. We don't need to write that, 'cause we're playing it.

Maybe if people did want to do this, though, an easier approach would be in describing other portions of a character's story throughout the siege, involved in any of the battles directly or on the periphery, as there does seem to be quite a bit going on.

Second; If we took a concerted approach to telling the entire story of the siege, it seems too easy to make a mess of it. As mentioned above, there's stuff going on on the periphery, but the raid as presented in-game is the primary focus still. I don't want it to be that those who're heavily invested in their character's role in that final battle don't get much of a showing as they feel they should have. Case in point: We're not all part of TRI, and it's going to be hard for those who are to take into account those of us who aren't.

In conclusion. I fell like the final battle is something we all know happened, but no single account exists, or should exist--the entire point of the scene is how, canonically, it's changing the world of Azeroth--this is no one person's moment, and there's a certain beauty in the near-simplicity of what actually happens (man, I could go on about that for paragraphs). We can deal with the buildup. We can deal with the fallout. An attempt at delivering a cohesive retelling of it from all of our individual perspectives, though, just seems redundant at best, and a potentially huge mess at worst.

Needless to say, this is just my opinion, and not eloquently delivered. People can still do whatever their creativity urges, I suppose, but my two cents are thusly deposited.

[Denne]

Lans, I don't think writing an account of it is the crux of this thread. The relevant question was when we are going to agree that it's happened, for the sake of all of our RP and character interactions in general.

Myself, I look forward to a TRI 25-man success against him. Seems to me that might be when we want to consider him bested, even if it's followed by weeks of heroic versions throughout.